Corey Friedlander is a New Zealand-based drummer known for his work in the metal and rock music scenes. He gained recognition as a highly skilled and technical drummer and he is now a producer and co-owner of the production studio and music label BEATSPUN.
Corey has played with several bands, most notably City of Souls, In Dread Response, Mark of Man, 8 Foot Sativa & more. Corey has been involved in various other musical projects and collaborations, further establishing himself as a respected figure in the New Zealand music community.
During this korero we discussed his early life, meeting his heroes, his creative process, mental health, creating BEATSPUN and more. This was a conversation I truly enjoyed as it was amazing to reconnect with old friends who are also immensely talented. Follow https://www.instagram.com/beatspun/ & https://www.instagram.com/coreznz/ !
Timestamps & Moments
00:00 – 🔮 Intro
02:06 – ❤️ Falling in love with music
09:52 – 🤘 Metallica – What was that?
10:42 – 🔉 My parents asked me to turn it down a bit…
11:26 – 🎸 Nu-Metal – The Groove
13:30 – 🤔 It’s noise. Wait? It’s not.
15:43 – 😲 Dude, you have met some crazy people.
16:20 – 🗺️ Where are you from BTW? Playing in bars underage. Eden’s Bar.
17:30 – 🥁 How I started getting into technical drumming
18:41 – ✈️ They hire me, then travel to the US to record with the producer of Tool.
20:45 – 🏫 What did you learn teaching?
22:10 – 💼 I want to become a businessman. Swizl Jager Shout!
23:05 – 🤝 @swizljager – New collaboration coming soon
24:50 – 🇳🇿 NZ Music scene is small. That’s why you can’t be a dick.
25:32 – ❓ What happened with City of Souls?
28:30 – 🎶 What makes the NZ scene tough for musos?
30:13 – 🌍 Surprisingly other countries were more supportive of Broken Season
33:15 – 😕 The problem with the scene in New Zealand is…
34:30 – 🔑 YOU HAVE BAD MANAGEMENT! Management is everything
36:05 – 🔥 Metal is getting popular again… Vibe more than Words
37:30 – 🎤 Opening for Bring Me The Horizon – Weird Moment.
39:54 – 🚫 Do opening acts get less lights, volume and quality for their performance?
44:35 – 🎧 BEATSPUN
45:45 – 🌟 Nathan Grey is super talented – Keep an eye on this guy.
47:12 – 💔 Letting go, Toxic Relationship, Mental breakdown, A Friend, Social Media, Cops
50:55 – 🍔 Who is DJ Scissorhands? – Burger Fuel Partnership & more
54:17 – 🎚️ Did you have any background as a producer? Also what about money?
59:07 – 🏷️ Becoming a label. Realising all the ins and outs of the music industry. Wow.
1:01:02 – 🎧 Where was DJ Scissorhands when we wanted a DJ for our Nu-Metal band.
1:02:47 – 🧠 The Mental Breakdown – What did you learn?
1:05:59 – 🧘 “Every thought has energy” – Breathing, DMT (Ayahuasca) & Psychedelic Experiences, Sensory Deprivation Tank.
1:10:33 – 🧑⚕️ Get Therapy. The Song “Letting go”
1:15:30 – 🎨 Creative Process
1:17:35 – 🤖 Artificial Intelligence in The Music Scene
1:21:29 – 🎛️ THE SOUNDBOARD
1:25:43 – 🎙️ “Hi ChatGPT 4o, You are live, ask something”
1:27:32 – 🏁 Leave us with…
1:29:25 – 💧🏋️✌🏾
Attire by:
⛑️ https://www.instagram.com/cloudworldwide/
🥋 https://www.instagram.com/fxxkingrabbits/
👕 https://www.instagram.com/swizljager/
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TRANSCRIPT
Corey: Being a creative, you do put yourself out there with more vulnerability than most.
Corey: And for me, it was the feeling of being alone that got me, because I felt it was so hard, being understood, like no one understands why do you keep doing this music, but seeing you struggle, usually if you struggle with something, that’s a sign right there to do something else, right?
Corey: But here I am, trying to build this career in music, learning from my own breakdowns, I’ve gained a lot of knowledge with ways to improve on how to handle being, you know, a sensitive musician.
Corey: And I’ve done a few speeches on mental health.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: Now more than ever, there’s so many increased suicides and, you know, especially with the music industry.
Corey: But at the same time, I felt like music was the thing that healed me.
Esty: Welcome to The Melding Muse Podcast.
Esty: Melding art and design, entrepreneurship, music, fashion, film, sports, gaming, and whatever’s in between.
Esty: We exist to showcase extraordinary people to inspire the next generation of creatives and leaders.
Esty: My guest today is Corey Freelander, friend, drummer, founder and producer of Beatspun.
Esty: We converse about falling in love with music and what it means for us.
Esty: We cover Corey’s journey as one of the best metal drummers in the New Zealand music scene.
Esty: We talked about City of Souls, creating Beatspun, psychedelic experiences with breathing, and a lot more.
Esty: If you love music, this episode is for you.
Esty: Corey Freelander, welcome to The Melding Muse Podcast.
Esty: How are you doing, my bro?
Corey: I’m doing good, bro.
Corey: I’m appreciative of being here and I’m excited.
Corey: Yeah, yeah.
Esty: Long time no see, man.
Esty: We were just talking before and we have no idea how long it’s been.
Esty: But it’s been a long time, but I’m happy that you’re here and I’m happy that you’re doing all the awesome stuff that you’re doing.
Esty: I’ve been following you, of course, for a long as time.
Esty: We played together, I opened for your band many, many years ago.
Esty: Of course, I know Trajan, Steve and all these guys from City of Souls.
Esty: I’m happy to be talking to you today, man.
Esty: So thank you for coming through.
Esty: There’s so many things I want to talk to you about.
Esty: But let’s start with falling in love with music.
Esty: Because you play music for a long as time, man.
Esty: I’ve seen you just grow into different types of genres, different experiments.
Esty: Now you run in your own production studio.
Esty: You’re producing, you’re making these awesome drum and bass tracks, which I’ve been jamming today.
Esty: That Letting Go track is pretty awesome.
Esty: So let’s start from the very beginning.
Corey: Yeah, let’s go way back.
Esty: Let’s go way back.
Corey: This can be an origin story.
Esty: Origins.
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: Let’s go to the beginning for people who are listening to this, who might not know who you are and your journey so far.
Corey: Sure.
Esty: So walk us through early beginnings.
Esty: How are you falling in love with music?
Corey: So basically, like most people in my situation, I was lucky enough to have parents that cranked all the good tunes, like all the styles, but not any heavy metal.
Corey: But they do like it now.
Corey: I got them into the metal, to the dark side.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: But like, let’s say for instance, Stevie Wonder, Michael Jackson, all the styles you can imagine, that from Neil Diamond to Chicago, to some crazy ass technical jazz stuff, and it was cool, man.
Corey: It was cool.
Corey: So I always resonated with music being like a communal thing, a fun thing.
Esty: Nice.
Corey: And also, I just loved the beat.
Corey: I always would try and groove along.
Corey: And until I got my first drum lesson, I never really paid that much attention to the actual beat of the drum.
Esty: Right.
Corey: It was always the vocal.
Corey: I’d always be tapping to the vocal and trying to sing along.
Corey: Until I had my first drum lesson at 10, and I’ve learned my first one and two and, you know, the basic four on the floor.
Corey: It was amazing.
Corey: I finished the lesson.
Corey: It was like a quick 25-minute lesson.
Corey: I was about 10.
Corey: It was my first music lesson ever.
Corey: I’d been in New Zealand three years.
Corey: I have to move in here at seven.
Corey: And I didn’t learn guitar because my brother learned guitar.
Corey: And I didn’t want to copy him, right?
Esty: Right.
Esty: Of course.
Corey: But I kind of wish I always did, you know?
Corey: And now I am.
Corey: Now I am learning guitar.
Esty: Now you’re learning guitar, okay.
Corey: It only took me like 25 years to get enough.
Corey: That’s all right.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: My first lesson, I finish.
Corey: I get in the car and this weird thing happened.
Corey: I could hear the drums.
Esty: Right.
Corey: I could hear the beat.
Corey: I didn’t even care about the vocals.
Corey: All these songs I used to hear now sounded completely different.
Corey: It’s like my ears unlocked.
Esty: Right.
Corey: And that was the beginning of the music when I started getting into it.
Corey: But I always felt like music was something I loved and had a passion for but never understood.
Esty: Right.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: And that was an amazing moment.
Corey: I don’t know if you’ve ever had any.
Esty: I had it, bro.
Esty: I mean, it’s funny that you mentioned that because for me it was very similar.
Esty: I was exactly the same.
Esty: It was more about, you know, singing and that.
Esty: But there was one moment where you realize you kind of can get connected with the beat.
Esty: And then suddenly you’re connected to it and trying to do it.
Corey: Emulate it, right?
Esty: And emulate it.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: I clearly remember.
Esty: And I don’t know what is the thing about drums, but drums is that thing that, you know, you never go in the car and try to, you know, do the guitar or the air guitar, the drums, man.
Esty: You’re hitting your, you’re staring at it all the whole time.
Corey: Anything.
Corey: Your hands on everything.
Esty: The drums is the one that, you know, puts in that juice in there.
Esty: So yeah, I think there’s definitely something special about the drums.
Corey: So for me, that was my first instrument.
Corey: Was it for you?
Esty: No, no, it wasn’t.
Esty: For whatever reason, I was always singing a lot.
Esty: And I remember one time when I was at school, they were doing some auditions for the choir or whatever.
Esty: And people sucked, like all the boys sucked.
Esty: And they were just pulling everybody.
Esty: You should try to get somebody.
Esty: It’s like, okay, you go.
Esty: And then the teacher was like, holy shit, this guy can sing like, and then just told my mom, like, have you taken your son to like singing lessons or anything?
Esty: She’s like, no.
Corey: So you had a natural gift from that moment on.
Esty: I was like, oh shit, maybe I can sing.
Esty: I didn’t live with my father my whole life, but my father played guitar.
Esty: He sung all of that kind of stuff.
Esty: I just didn’t know that.
Esty: You know what I mean?
Esty: It’s in your blood, though.
Corey: It’s in your blood.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: I think it was in my blood.
Corey: You weren’t raised with him, though, huh?
Esty: No, no, I wasn’t raised with him.
Esty: Wow.
Corey: How old were you when you did that singing experience?
Esty: I don’t know, bro.
Esty: I think I was probably like 11 or something like that.
Corey: Yeah, similar age to me.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Esty: And of course, I grew up with music in the heart, but it was more like folklore.
Corey: What’s that?
Esty: Like, I’m from Colombia.
Corey: Colombia, okay.
Esty: I’m from South America.
Corey: I was going to ask you before where you are from.
Esty: Yeah, so I’m from Colombia and we have a lot of folkloric music, or folk music, which is very different to anything you’ve heard.
Corey: Folk music from Colombia?
Esty: Yeah, yeah.
Esty: It’s very different.
Esty: It’s very, very unique in the sounds.
Esty: And I was never attracted to that.
Esty: You know what I mean?
Esty: My mom listened to it and they love it and everybody in Colombia love it.
Esty: But I was always…
Corey: But you didn’t.
Esty: No, dude.
Esty: And I think it’s one of those things when you’re a kid, you know, you reject your parents’ music.
Corey: You rebel a little bit.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: So what they like is not cool.
Corey: So you got to find your own.
Esty: Exactly.
Esty: So for me, it was punk music.
Esty: When I discovered, you know, I mean, for me, it was like, you know, Deremones, Rancid, all these bands was the one that opened everything for me.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: And then from there on, you keep going up and no effects.
Esty: I remember when I listened to them for the first time, I was like, oh my God, what is this thing?
Esty: And then from then on, man, you just keep going.
Esty: And in fact, when I got to New Zealand, I was more of a, you know, I would say like emo was at that time, was the music and I will be into that.
Esty: And when I got to New Zealand, that’s when I turned me into an absolute metal hit.
Corey: Who did that?
Corey: Which band did that?
Esty: I think In Dread Response did that to me.
Esty: Yes.
Esty: Yes.
Corey: Wow.
Esty: Because like I was saying to you before, we were talking about about that.
Esty: When I go to New Zealand and trying to meet people that were into the same music that I was, and I already played in bands in Colombia.
Esty: So when I got here, I was like, show how we show people, like, you know, I play in bands over there and they’re like, oh, shit, that’s so cool.
Corey: But not metal.
Esty: No, it was it was punk.
Corey: Punk.
Esty: It was punk.
Corey: Who did you sound the closest to?
Corey: What was your main influence?
Esty: I think the main influence at that time, in particular, will probably be NoFX.
Esty: But NoFX meets My Chemical Romance.
Esty: You know what I mean?
Esty: Because you will bring in some screams and stuff like that.
Esty: Descendants.
Corey: So you were on your way to the metal by screaming.
Esty: By screaming.
Corey: You wanted something heavier.
Esty: That’s what I mean.
Esty: Like with with the emo music, you kind of started getting into that.
Esty: And then when I got here, I started discovering that.
Esty: And then I listened to I went to the show to watch this band play, turns out it was In Dread Response.
Esty: And I was like, holy shit, the energy, all of that kind of stuff.
Esty: From then on, I started expanding a little more.
Esty: And then people I met started giving me CDs.
Esty: Then I discovered Under oath and a bunch of other stuff.
Esty: I could just completely change from that point on.
Esty: But yeah, anyway, let’s talk about you, bro.
Corey: The funny thing is talking about this, we have so many similarities.
Corey: It was, here’s a funny story.
Corey: So it was all drums.
Corey: It wasn’t any metal.
Corey: It was like Supergrass.
Corey: You heard of that band?
Corey: It was my first song I ever listened to that I learned on drums.
Esty: I think I’ve heard the name.
Corey: The song was called Pumping on the Stereo.
Esty: OK.
Corey: And it was a basic rock beat, but it just had cool vibes.
Corey: And this teacher of mine, Paul Dunningham, was the teacher at Glen Eden Intermediate.
Corey: And he presented that song.
Corey: And I was starting to get into a bit more technical stuff.
Corey: But it wasn’t until I discovered Metallica from a friend.
Corey: And it was probably in her Sandman, or Sad But True, or something off the Black Album.
Esty: OK.
Corey: And then I just went, what was that?
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: I’m going to go that way.
Corey: The rock is cool.
Corey: A bit of funk’s all right.
Corey: But I want to be Lars Ulrich.
Corey: I want to check out this heavy stuff.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: So for me, I was just like, double kick.
Corey: OK, I need a double kick.
Corey: Obviously, over time, I’ll build my drum kit to be this huge contrappment that I’m surrounded by all these drums.
Esty: Were your parents all good with you having a full drum set in the house?
Corey: They did it, actually.
Corey: I’m surprised.
Corey: I must always thank them for putting up with that.
Corey: And at one point when I joined 8 Foot Sativa, that was the band that brought in the big amps.
Corey: And I remember Brent Fox, the bassist at the time, had this insane stack.
Corey: It was so insane and his sound was so distorted.
Corey: My parents would have never heard it so intense.
Corey: They were so cool that after the rehearsal, that one time, we really pushed it that time.
Corey: I came downstairs and had a snack and my parents are just looking at me and they’re like, oh yeah, can you just turn it down a little bit?
Corey: The light is falling out of the fixture of the ceiling.
Corey: So that’s how chill they were with it.
Esty: Wow, that’s crazy.
Esty: I had a similar thing with the bass and you cranked the bass and everything vibrates.
Corey: That’s the bass for you.
Corey: Just goes through everything.
Esty: Awesome.
Esty: Yeah, so then you discovered Metallica, bro.
Esty: Actually, you know what I didn’t mention?
Esty: I don’t know if it’s the same for you, but also, while I was into the punk, there was one thing that also changed my life and that was Nu Metal.
Corey: Really?
Corey: I was gonna ask you about that.
Esty: What band?
Corey: Was it Linkin Park?
Esty: Linkin Park, Biscuit, Madvane, System of a Down.
Esty: That was the shit when I was there.
Esty: Because at that time, I was a bit conflicted as a teenager.
Esty: Because I had all the friends that I played rock with.
Esty: There was this…
Esty: I don’t know if it was the same in New Zealand, but in Colombia, it was like, you’re either a rock guy or you’re a rap guy.
Esty: But you couldn’t be in the middle.
Esty: And then Nu Metal came in.
Esty: You know, that drum and just the guitar, simple guitars over it with that rap.
Esty: I was just like, man, this is so incredible.
Esty: I still love that.
Esty: And that’s when I started doing Broken Season after that as well.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: For me, it was the same.
Corey: There was something about Nu Metal.
Corey: I think it’s because they slowed it down a bit and it had the groove.
Esty: The groove.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: And just the way it felt and the rapping was so rhythmic.
Corey: It wasn’t about like the emo stuff until certain bands in that genre like Linkin Park would…
Esty: Yeah…
Corey: .
Corey: do the screams and stuff.
Corey: But did you get into head PE?
Esty: Yes, of course.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: So for me, the heavy stuff actually was…
Corey: It was Metallica until…
Corey: For me, that was heavy.
Corey: Until I heard my brother, who’s two years older, Aaron, play all this heavy shit with his friends.
Corey: And it was like Slipknot.
Esty: Oh, yes.
Corey: And it was like, that’s a bit harder than the Nu Metal, but it’s still Nu Metal a little bit.
Corey: And to me, the funniest thing was I was like, what the hell is this crap?
Corey: Just sounds like noise.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: And then later, like maybe a year later, a favorite band.
Corey: It’s funny how we do that, you know.
Corey: I didn’t understand it.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: But there was something about it.
Corey: And hearing it was cool.
Corey: So once I got into that, I said to my brother, like, what else is there besides Slipknot?
Corey: And he was saying, oh, check this out.
Corey: It was like all these new sounds of not just Nu Metal, but it was like Spaceship.
Corey: With the synths and stuff.
Esty: The thing is, how I see the music journey from the outside after, is that, like you said, as you start progressing through, you feel like it’s noise, right?
Esty: And you don’t understand it.
Esty: But it’s because your sensitivity is not there yet.
Esty: And then as you’re losing that, then you start understanding a little more.
Esty: I remember bands that I’ve heard that my friends are like, listen to this band.
Esty: And I was like, man, I have no idea what they’re playing.
Esty: Like they play different tempo signatures.
Esty: They just like, I remember there was this band called, I think it was called As Color Burns.
Esty: Have you ever listened to that band?
Corey: Is it a local band?
Esty: No, it’s not a local band.
Esty: But they are an amazing band.
Esty: But when I first listened to them, I was like, what are they doing?
Esty: Like they would just have all these crazy time signatures and they would just drastically change.
Esty: But then after a while you realize, oh, wow, this is something unique about this sound.
Esty: And then your sensitivity kind of absorbs that.
Esty: And then you start to divert a little bit more.
Esty: And then you start to become a little bit more conscious of all the different possibilities.
Esty: And we broke in the season, we did many songs where we did that, which would have a very unique tempo to it.
Esty: At the beginning, you kind of fax with your head, right?
Esty: Because it’s off.
Esty: And you feel quite unorthodox, but you start to then expand from that.
Esty: You know what I mean?
Esty: I think another one that does something very similar, but not to that extreme, is Tool.
Esty: I remember Tool when I…
Esty: New Zealanders are crazy about Tool.
Esty: I never heard of Tool in my life.
Corey: Yeah, I think per population, we have the biggest fan base.
Esty: Yeah, similar sort of thing.
Esty: They do quite unique things.
Corey: Well, I got to meet Danny Carey.
Corey: That was insane.
Corey: Here’s the funniest thing.
Corey: As I’m waiting to meet him, was at the NAMM show.
Corey: This is beautiful, by the way.
Corey: Thanks again.
Esty: Oh, it sure is.
Esty: Yeah, by the way.
Corey: Thank you.
Corey: Guess who comes up to me and goes, yo, was Danny here yet?
Corey: Bron Daler from Mastodon.
Esty: Oh, wow.
Corey: And I’m just like, is he really just speaking to me right now?
Corey: Like, what the hell?
Corey: It was insane.
Esty: Dude, you have met some, I’m sure some crazy people.
Corey: I got some stories, bro.
Esty: Yeah, crazy.
Corey: Funny enough, we opened for Limp Bizkit with City of Souls.
Esty: Oh, yeah?
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: But when, when?
Corey: Storm the Gates.
Corey: It was with Suicidal Tendencies.
Corey: So I got to meet Dave Lombardo back then, one of my big idols.
Corey: And also was Sublime.
Corey: Who would have ever thought as a kid growing up listening to these bands, I would share the stage with them.
Corey: So for me, that’s been a crazy achievement, you know?
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: But I mean, you’ve, again, let’s go back to that because you’ve been in some crazy bands, dude, like really good bands, especially in the New Zealand scene.
Esty: Where are you from, by the way?
Esty: Because you said you came here.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: So I’m from the States in Florida.
Esty: OK.
Corey: A place called Hollywood, but not Hollywood.
Esty: California, Hollywood.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: OK.
Corey: It’s near Miami.
Esty: I see.
Corey: I moved here when I was 7 and 95, got into the drums at 10, didn’t really start having a proper band until maybe 16, 17.
Corey: So we would have to really try and play in these bars underage by getting permission, having our parents call the bar manager up first, and some would not allow it and some would.
Corey: And one place was like Eden’s Bar.
Corey: You ever heard of Eden’s Bar?
Esty: No.
Corey: Well, I don’t know what it is now.
Corey: It was on K-Road and it was famous for having the strip club above it, with that cartoon looking woman.
Esty: Yeah, like the babies of somebody.
Corey: So below that was Eden’s Bar.
Corey: So every weekend we’d play a gig at Eden’s Bar with my band Final Eve.
Corey: And we were like a big influence by, I would say like In Flames, a little bit of the more technical stuff.
Corey: So I went from the Metallica vibe, more and more technical, got into Tool like you as well, got into Linkin Park, but then got into these crazy bands like Spastic Ink, which is super technical, insane musicianship.
Corey: So at 16, 17, we formed this band, Final Eve.
Corey: It was just guitar, drums and vocals.
Corey: And the crowd was like, what was that?
Corey: And they started to really find that we were unique and very good musicians.
Corey: Because you see a lot of metal bands, you’re just like, this is mean.
Corey: You don’t normally go, whoa, that was insane what they just did, unless they’re like quite technical, you know?
Corey: So for us, we were like showcasing all these skills and other bands would tell us we were very tied and started to realize like, this is something we should maybe evolve.
Corey: And then eventually that band became Emenda, which was a instrumental band.
Corey: And then I started to play in other instrumental bands.
Corey: I’ll try your audition for a drummer, because they had been trying all these drummers.
Corey: And they had on their MySpace, this is back in the MySpace days, an advert with all this Egyptian shit.
Corey: And I was like, that’s kind of cool.
Corey: And I heard the song and I was like, this is very technical.
Corey: I’ll give it a go.
Corey: So I learned to have the audition.
Corey: They hired me.
Corey: And next thing you know, we do our album with the producer of Tool in Weed, California.
Corey: So for me, that was a big deal.
Corey: That was my first proper chance to record with a very famous producer that I idolized, Sylvia Massey.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: So Sylvia said to me, she goes, you should do more of this stuff.
Corey: You’re one of the best damn drummers I know.
Corey: So like 20, 21, I was like, okay, sweet.
Corey: I’ll keep that in mind.
Corey: So I just kept joining more bands and got into a little bit of session drumming.
Corey: Then after a while, In Dread did their thing.
Corey: But I wasn’t thinking it’s my career.
Corey: I was like, this is just what I do.
Corey: But I would teach drums all day long.
Corey: That was my job.
Esty: Also, your job was teaching drums?
Corey: Teaching drums at Drum City.
Corey: But the way I did it is I worked at Drum City first and then took on the teaching part time.
Corey: Then over time, I built so many students.
Corey: The funny thing is that upstairs was the teaching academy.
Corey: Downstairs was the shop.
Corey: I would always answer the phone.
Corey: If they needed a teacher, I’d be like, oh, what do you need?
Corey: If they said something, I said, I can teach you that.
Corey: I’ll be the teacher if you want.
Corey: So I got all these students and started teaching at a few schools.
Corey: So I would teach from like nine till five or six every day.
Corey: And then do like two rehearsals a night with two different bands.
Corey: And it was full on.
Esty: It was like breakfast, lunch and dinner.
Corey: I’ve taught over a thousand students.
Esty: That’s crazy, dude.
Corey: A lot of schools, man.
Corey: In some schools, you’ll teach like 40 kids in a day.
Corey: So right there, I’ve taught 40 kids in one day, three or four private students.
Corey: And then a rehearsal.
Corey: And then maybe another one.
Corey: Most of the time, it was two.
Esty: Wow.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: At one point, it was nuts.
Esty: What was that thing about teaching?
Esty: Like, what do you learn?
Esty: Because that’s one thing I’ve always heard, especially, I mean, I’m a designer and whenever you have to teach design to like a junior designer, there’s something very special about teaching, you know?
Corey: There is.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: So what was-
Corey: I enjoy it as well.
Esty: What was one of those things that, because I mean, that’s why you’re such a good drummer.
Esty: You did it every day.
Esty: Like, you did your 10,000 hours, let me tell you that.
Corey: The master, yeah.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: What was that one thing about teaching that surprises you?
Esty: I’ll surprise you.
Corey: I’ll tell you, and I’ve thought about this before.
Corey: Good question.
Corey: You never stopped learning.
Esty: Yes, of course.
Corey: And you learn how each generation have evolved.
Esty: Right.
Corey: And they really have.
Corey: Because when we started, there was no YouTube.
Esty: Oh, yes.
Corey: You know?
Esty: Yes.
Corey: And then, yeah, and then it was there.
Corey: And then so was Guitar Pro.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: For me, that was it.
Corey: Guitar Pro and YouTube, because I like downloading all the songs and just getting my first MP3 player before phones could do any of that.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: And just going to the drum room as I had a place I could practice with the bands.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: And before they turn up just playing to this crap, you know?
Esty: Yeah, yeah.
Corey: Just doing it nonstop, eh?
Esty: Bro, I’m just going to take these off.
Corey: Yeah, yeah, okay.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, we’re still rolling.
Corey: So because of all this teaching, I was like, I need to become a businessman.
Corey: I want to crank this shit.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: And I want to teach as many people as I can and be known for my teaching and drumming.
Corey: So I went all out, full steam, hired like a website designer, created a business and I called it Drums in Zed.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: Which is very similar to Drum in Zed, the music distributors.
Esty: I see.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: So Drums in Zed and the logo is the Iron Maiden font.
Esty: Oh, no way.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: But it’s in blue.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: Shout out to Swizl.
Esty: Shout out to Swizl Jager.
Esty: We didn’t intentionally do this, by the way.
Corey: We got some connections.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: Some energetic kind of frequencies.
Esty: Shout out to Swizl Jager.
Corey: What are the odds of that, though?
Esty: What are the odds, bro?
Corey: Both wearing the same rapper’s shirt.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: We could talk about him for a bit.
Corey: You know what?
Corey: Since I’m running a recording studio and making music with my business partner Elton Scissorhands, we have a song coming out with…
Esty: With Swizl?
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: Oh, no shit.
Corey: I’ve been a fan of him for years.
Corey: He’s good friends with the bass player in City of Souls.
Esty: Oh, I see.
Corey: So I’d always see him at the gigs.
Corey: And we had some similarities with the new metal roots, you know?
Corey: And next thing you know, we’re on a track together.
Esty: Oh, that’s awesome.
Esty: When is that going to come out?
Corey: Well, we just finished it.
Corey: We don’t know if our mastering will be suitable or we get someone else, but it’s sounding amazing.
Corey: Very proud of this.
Esty: What type of…
Esty: Is it a Rizzila Metal song?
Esty: Is it a hip hop song?
Esty: What is it?
Corey: It is your favorite.
Esty: It’s a new metal song?
Corey: Punk.
Esty: Punk?
Corey: But with rap sections.
Esty: Oh, damn.
Corey: There’s a drum solo.
Corey: There’s a DJ Scrat solo.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: Hopefully, there will be a guitar solo, but we don’t know if it will happen or not.
Corey: I’m giving it one more week.
Corey: If it doesn’t get done, we’re moving forwards.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: Because we want to get it out.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: But man, this is cool.
Corey: And it’s not just Swizzle.
Corey: It’s another rapper as well, Kevin Posey.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: Who’s based in the States.
Corey: But they work well together and they each have their section.
Corey: And it’s insane, bro.
Corey: It sounds so good.
Esty: Oh, nice.
Corey: So I’ll even show it to you at the end.
Esty: All right.
Corey: Cool.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: We just finished it today.
Esty: Yeah, no, he’s from, Swizzle is awesome, man.
Esty: I’ve discovered him, we had him on the podcast and we were talking about how incredible it is that we never cross paths because we have a very similar background.
Esty: I think we know the same people.
Corey: It’s a small scene here.
Corey: It’s not hard to know everybody.
Esty: I know, bro.
Corey: That’s why you can’t be a dick.
Corey: Because then no one will want to do anything with you.
Corey: You’ve got to be a good man and respectful and not burn any bridges, right?
Esty: 100%.
Esty: Yes.
Esty: Bro, you talked about the New Zealand music scene and I wanted to talk to you about that.
Esty: Because, I mean, Swizl and I talked about this too.
Esty: The scene here is rather tricky, right?
Esty: Like, there’s great bands, the great musicians, but for whatever reason, they just don’t make it into the big stages internationally, even here domestically.
Esty: I mean, City of Souls, what happened to City of Souls?
Esty: Bro, I was so pumped for that band.
Esty: When that came out, I was sold on every aspect of that band.
Esty: Music-wise, but also, shout out Trajan, the visuals, the aesthetic, the narrative, the themes, everything was just fucking incredible.
Esty: What happened to City of Souls?
Corey: Well, that’s a good question.
Corey: It’s a lot of mystery there.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: And I guess like some bands, you know, when you’ve been going at it for a good seven years or so, and you don’t make any money, it’s hard to maintain it with the family, the business, whatever you’re doing to support your, you know, pay your bills.
Corey: But for me, I sacrificed a lot to make that band happen.
Corey: And for me, it was a dream come true.
Corey: Like we got to open for Stone Sour.
Corey: Oh, cheers, bro.
Corey: We got to open for Bring Me The Horizon, Hailstorm.
Corey: We toured with Devil’s Skin and now I’m very good friends with Nail.
Corey: We have our own side project together called Beckoned.
Corey: I mean, I don’t regret a single day joining that band and doing all the gigging and flying around, you know, here in Australia and doing what we did.
Corey: And we won a 2E.
Esty: Yes, I saw that.
Esty: Yeah, bro.
Esty: I mean, the album you guys released was just so good.
Corey: 16 songs.
Esty: I know, bro.
Esty: And the videos were awesome, like.
Corey: Yeah, we had good videos.
Corey: We did.
Esty: I was always a big fan of Trajan’s.
Esty: Trajan’s the one that did the design, right?
Corey: He did.
Corey: But the one video that was my favorite personally was Water.
Corey: And that was directed by Zyga.
Esty: Yes, that’s one of my favorite videos as well.
Corey: And it won some awards overseas.
Esty: Oh, really?
Corey: And he had that vision and concept.
Corey: And it was a lot to do with the lyrics and Richie’s theme.
Corey: But all the artwork, all the design was Trajan.
Corey: And that’s what he does for a living.
Corey: He’s a designer.
Corey: And he’s a genius with that stuff, you know?
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: Another cheers.
Esty: Cheers, mate.
Corey: But for us, it was hard to make a living off it.
Corey: We couldn’t, you know?
Esty: I see.
Corey: But we were very lucky to do what we did.
Corey: And a lot of it was thanks to New Zealand On Air, Tom Larkin, James Southgate helped us out a lot.
Corey: You know, we had a lot of good support and we worked our asses off and we all were experienced musicians.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: So at that point, we took it very seriously.
Corey: But traveling and all that stuff, we had to pay for everything.
Corey: Oh, really?
Esty: That’s what we…
Corey: Wasn’t cheap.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: I know, dude.
Esty: It’s hard because it’s just, you know, you put so much effort and your own money into this.
Esty: And of course, many people have families and it’s just so hard.
Esty: And I just wish like there was more support from the New Zealand scene.
Esty: And of course, then a bridge to, you know, Australia.
Esty: Still a big market to go there.
Esty: What do you think it is about the scene here that makes it so hard for bands like, in this particular case, City of Souls, to kind of continue to, at the very least, continue to make it?
Esty: You know what I mean?
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: Because it could be a population thing, too, maybe.
Corey: You think?
Corey: Because overseas, you can probably play city to city, and they’re decent turnouts, but you can keep going.
Esty: That’s true.
Corey: You know, and here it’s like, how many main cities?
Corey: 12, you know?
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: If you’re lucky, if you have a bit of a fan base, maybe more.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: But, you know, it’s hard.
Corey: And now, more than ever, the economy is stopping people from going out and doing the things they did as privileges, not necessities.
Esty: Right.
Corey: And unfortunately, the entertainment industry gets hit first.
Corey: And that’s, you know, the cinemas, the music productions, all that stuff.
Corey: And unfortunately, that’s tough.
Corey: So I think as well with Spotify, you know, taking a big chunk of the earnings, we can’t really do what we used to do with selling CDs.
Esty: That’s gone.
Esty: It’s off the table.
Esty: You get pennies from Spotify.
Corey: So the only way to make it is to go viral.
Corey: And the only way to do that is to join the social media trends.
Esty: Yes.
Corey: And content is the word.
Corey: Content, content, content.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: And get your song featured by people using the audio.
Corey: You know?
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: And that’s all it’s become now.
Corey: And it’s sad, you know?
Esty: Dude, do you think that, like, because one thing that happened with us with Broken Season was that for whatever reason, man, we were like, we were always like, put songs out or whatever, but they never sort of, you know, get any real traction, mainly because we make songs about political issues that they were just not commercial whatsoever.
Esty: I mean, we’re talking about, you know, legalization of cannabis.
Esty: We’re talking about brand Tamaki.
Esty: We’re talking about, you know, racism and police brutality.
Esty: Like that’s the stuff that goes on the radio, right?
Esty: We knew that and we accepted it.
Esty: We just, it was part of our, the DNA of the band.
Esty: But interestingly, when we made Big Waves was internationally, like we had a song that went crazy on Russia in Brazil, you know, stuff like that, like the guy who, if you go to YouTube and go Broken Seas and see all these videos of lyrics videos, that was all done by some fan in Argentina.
Corey: Why do you think that was?
Esty: I have no idea.
Corey: Is it the rebellious anarchy, like anti-establishment theme?
Esty: Probably.
Corey: I think it is because they’re under a dictatorship, right?
Esty: Probably.
Esty: But also I think, I mean, it was those countries that I just mentioned, they’re really into that numeral stuff.
Esty: So I think that was a factor.
Corey: And I noticed that too.
Esty: I think he was also, he’s one of those things where, you know, they, in those countries, and I’m speaking on Colombia as well, because the people there, the scene is very different, but people do share and support local artists.
Esty: And that creates this sort of effect.
Corey: The community is better, right?
Esty: The communities are just, and New Zealand has such a awesome metal scene in terms of the community that it has, but it just never, I think, could be the population stuff, but it just never takes these amazing bands.
Esty: Like I took one of my Colombian friends, and he’s a metalhead, where he doesn’t have any context of New Zealand bands or whatever.
Esty: And recently Blindspot did a show in West Auckland, like a reunion show.
Esty: I was like, dude, I’m going to take you to see these bands.
Esty: West Auckland band is awesome.
Esty: He saw that he’s like, dude, how come these guys are not bigger?
Esty: You know, that was an awesome band.
Esty: Like it was an awesome show.
Esty: And-
Corey: That’s probably our biggest in terms of that style.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Esty: And I remember when I listened to Blindspot, because one of my bandmates told me about it, I was like, I’ve never heard of this band in my life.
Esty: And so I think it’s also that thing where people here need to, and Swizl will talk about this by the way, need to start to push the artists forward.
Esty: Because I think, like you said, locally, domestically, only a handful of bands will possibly be able to make a living of it.
Esty: 660, stuff like that, right?
Esty: Popular stuff.
Esty: But for other bands like that to be able to continue making music, they need to jump into the shores of Australia and the US and play internationally.
Esty: And for that to happen, some sort of movement needs to be happening here.
Esty: I just don’t think people do that enough.
Esty: They don’t help the bands get to that stage.
Esty: You know what I mean?
Corey: You know what I think it is?
Corey: Have you seen the documentary about the band Anvil?
Corey: Heard of Anvil?
Corey: They’re like a thrash metal band that never made it.
Esty: Dude, you know what?
Esty: We opened for Anvil when they came.
Corey: Are you fucking serious?
Corey: How cool is that?
Corey: I love when this shit happens.
Corey: Let me hear about this and I’ll come back to this point.
Corey: Actually, should I make the point real quick?
Corey: Then you tell me about this support gig.
Corey: How cool is that?
Corey: Here’s the thing I remember from that documentary.
Corey: Did you see it?
Esty: I did see the documentary because I didn’t know about the band until we were opening for it.
Corey: In the documentary, and I fucking love that documentary, I laugh a lot about that shit.
Corey: I feel bad because these guys, I feel bad for them, but they made it big because of that.
Corey: There’s this one scene, and this is what I think is the problem in New Zealand.
Corey: I think it’s the guitarist.
Corey: He goes to the, they play a gig in some weird place in Europe, and they don’t get paid.
Corey: The guitarist is so fucking angry, and he grabs the fucking guy, and he goes, where the fuck is the money?
Corey: Pay me my fucking money.
Corey: And the guy’s like, I can’t, I can’t.
Corey: I’m sorry, I’m sorry.
Corey: And here’s the words, you ready?
Corey: You have bad management.
Corey: Bad management.
Corey: And make that reverb.
Corey: Can you put effects on this?
Esty: Okay, I can.
Corey: So that’s what the problem is.
Corey: There’s not enough bands in New Zealand that connect with good management to take it to the next level.
Corey: And no one takes you seriously unless you have a good manager.
Corey: You know what I mean?
Esty: That’s a very good point.
Corey: And management is everything.
Corey: And they do a DIY in this country.
Esty: Right.
Corey: That’s the style.
Esty: But the thing is, to have good management, then you need to prep proper investment, right?
Corey: And it costs.
Esty: Or you need to be a manager that’s willing to do a pro bono sort of thing.
Corey: You need to make that manager realize his 20% commission is going to be something.
Corey: And it won’t be anything if you don’t have decent paying gigs.
Esty: That’s true.
Corey: And it’s hard.
Corey: But for us, we were lucky with City of Souls.
Corey: 8 Foot was lucky.
Corey: All the bands that do well, I guarantee you, or artists, not just bands, artists, rappers, whatever, it’s because they have good management.
Esty: Right.
Corey: You know?
Corey: And we don’t have enough good managers.
Corey: We only have a few, you know?
Corey: And that’s the thing.
Corey: And maybe there’s not enough education in the music industry about it.
Corey: Maybe there’s not enough connection between artists and managers and the community is not quite there yet.
Corey: But that, in my opinion, is the problem.
Corey: As well as the economy not going out to gigs like they used to.
Corey: But hopefully it comes back around.
Corey: But I do feel like metal is getting popular again.
Corey: Yes.
Corey: You right?
Corey: You notice that?
Esty: I’ve noticed that again.
Corey: How cool is that, right?
Esty: It’s really cool.
Esty: It’s really cool that it’s getting popular again.
Corey: It’s our time to shine.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: I mean, all the…
Corey: Wearing metal shirts every day and be like, yo.
Esty: Yo, bro.
Esty: And also, the great thing about it is all the bands that we used to listen to when we were, you know…
Esty: Cades, they fucking doing it again.
Corey: Sick again, right?
Corey: Yeah, they started like Limp Bizkit.
Esty: Man, when I…
Esty: I’m talking about Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park and all these bands, I’m not understanding a single word they’re saying.
Corey: You just like the sound of the flow.
Esty: Bro, because that’s the thing, right?
Esty: Like people don’t realize that.
Esty: But internationally, Limp Bizkit is huge.
Esty: Linkin Park is huge.
Esty: All these things.
Esty: Most people don’t know what they are saying.
Esty: They just go by what they…
Esty: They just go by what they feel and the sound and the noises.
Esty: By the way, what I was getting to is that those moments of these new bands, Androeth, we talked about Androeth, they’re doing tours again.
Esty: So it’s like a renaissance of metal.
Esty: And I feel it too.
Esty: I listen to the latest, for example, Bring Me The Horizon album.
Corey: I love it.
Esty: I love it.
Corey: You like it?
Esty: I love it.
Corey: But here’s the thing.
Corey: They lost a member.
Corey: This is the first album in years without Jordan Fish.
Corey: And that’s another band that City of Souls got to open for.
Esty: Dude, that would be crazy.
Corey: It was crazy.
Corey: There was a weird moment in that night.
Corey: We did our sound check and then I kind of walked around and checked out our street team because we had a street team of all our fans that we became friends with who would help us out.
Corey: And they were so great.
Corey: So I went to the merch table where our street team was and it looked great.
Corey: We had all our merch set up.
Corey: It was me and Trajan, Trajan and I.
Corey: And then we’re like, let’s go back to backstage.
Corey: But they just started sound checking.
Corey: So here we are walking in front of Bring Me The Horizon in an empty fucking stadium.
Corey: The only other person there was the sound man, Trajan and I, and the band.
Corey: And here’s Oli singing in the sound check, staring at me.
Corey: And I was like, what is going to happen here?
Corey: Are they going to stop?
Corey: Is he angry?
Corey: Am I meant to be here?
Corey: I don’t know what’s going on, but this is fucking intimidating.
Corey: But I just played it cool.
Corey: We walked past, went backstage, chilled out, and when we played, I fucking played my heart out that night.
Corey: I fucking gave it everything.
Corey: And then when we finished, we weren’t able to watch them side of stage.
Corey: They shut all the barriers.
Corey: Everything was sealed off.
Corey: But I had become friends with a couple of the technicians.
Corey: So we hung out a little bit, and I caught a few songs out front, but the crowd was packed as.
Corey: It was at Logan Campbell.
Corey: And I was just like, I understand this music, I get it.
Corey: Because I had never been a fan.
Corey: I never listened to them.
Corey: Really?
Corey: They sounded good though.
Corey: They played good.
Corey: And I remember the drummer had gold-plated DW hardware.
Corey: And that shit ain’t cheap.
Corey: All his cymbal stands were DW, which is already the best.
Esty: High quality.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
Corey: Expensive.
SPEAKER_4: Yeah.
Corey: But then customized with gold plating.
Esty: Gold plating?
Esty: Yes.
Corey: Hopefully, it doesn’t get too damaged.
Corey: If you hit it hard, it will dent.
Esty: Yeah, probably.
Corey: But he got it custom to be gold plated.
Corey: I was like, whoa, some bling up in here.
Corey: So yeah, they already at that stage were set up.
Esty: Solve this question for me because people asked me this.
Esty: And I’ve never played a gig big enough to be able to answer this correctly.
Esty: But many people say, is it true that in shows like that, right, when there’s a big band like Bring Me The Horizon coming, there’s an opening act.
Esty: The opening act always gets the shittiest sound.
Corey: Well, you know what?
Corey: It’s not just the big gigs.
Corey: Whatever band, this is the standard.
Corey: We’ve had bands I’ve been in, we’ve had conflicts with other bands.
Corey: If you put on your gig and you’re the headliner, and it’s your sound man, you’re probably going to have a conversation saying, we want to be the loudest band.
Corey: Yeah, that’s what I’m saying.
Corey: There is a thing.
Corey: It’s not just that with the big internationals and you’re the support.
Corey: Some are really generous.
Corey: Funny enough, that gig, our sound man, who’s a crazy mad man, Dave Wurnham, he actually saved Bring Me The Horizon’s ass in the fact that they were having issues with the sound desk.
Corey: I hope I don’t get in trouble for saying this.
Corey: Well, honestly, he gave them some tips, showed them some shit, and they were fucking grateful.
Corey: So for that gig, I wouldn’t be surprised if they said to Dave Wurnham, we’ll give you all access to all the channels, all the effects.
Corey: Feel free to do what you want, but maybe just keep it below this thing.
Corey: Otherwise, a band will have their own sound man, and they’ll say, you only get 16 channels, you can’t have these extra buses, like, they limit you, for many reasons.
Esty: Right.
Corey: But it’s standard.
Corey: It’s standard.
Corey: And then when that fucking headliner plays, and shit’s fucking way more louder.
Esty: Because people say that, and you really do notice it.
Corey: You know why?
Corey: The human body notices it.
Corey: So that is just like with music, the louder it is, the better quality we think it is.
Corey: It’s a psychosomatic, psychoacoustic thing that just makes us equate to this is better.
Esty: Bro, when I went to see Bling 182.
Corey: It was loud as fuck.
Esty: Yes.
Esty: And the show was awesome, by the way.
Esty: They really did throw out a great show.
Esty: But the band opening for them, I was a big fan of them, which is Rise Against.
Corey: Oh yeah, they’re great.
Esty: They’re an awesome band.
Esty: But the sound was just like, the whole, just the whole show.
Corey: You know what though, there could be so many things.
Corey: Oh yeah, they’ll limit you on the lights too.
Esty: They had nothing, bro.
Esty: They had just a banner and it just did look like.
Corey: But when they played, was it Christchurch solo without Bling 182?
Corey: Did they get everything?
Esty: I’m not sure.
Corey: Did they still do the gig?
Corey: I think they did.
Corey: Did you hear Bling 182 canceled?
Corey: Fuck Christchurch.
Corey: The headlines on New Zealand Herald are some shit, wasn’t it?
Corey: Some crap.
Esty: But I wanted to hear from you.
Esty: So it is a thing.
Corey: They do the gig.
Corey: That is a thing.
Corey: We’ve had a gig and we had another band, which I’ll never name because that’s not what I do.
Corey: Let’s just say the other band got upset, approached the sound man and said, what the fuck, man?
Corey: Did you limit us?
Corey: Could we have you admit to us that we didn’t get full volume?
Corey: And it caused a bit of commotion.
Corey: There was a bit of tension.
Esty: Oh, really?
Corey: But yeah, so that’s the thing.
Corey: And that was the problem because we were the headlining band promoting our actual release of our song.
Corey: And the whole gig was release of this.
Corey: It might even have been an album.
Esty: Right.
Corey: It was at Basement years and years ago.
Corey: But one of the other bands unfortunately felt like they didn’t get to have the quality they deserved.
Esty: Right, I see.
Corey: So it caused some issues.
Corey: And at the time, maybe that band had achieved more.
Corey: They felt like they were just as equal.
Esty: I see.
Corey: So it wasn’t fair.
Corey: So this happens.
Corey: But obviously, if you’re a support band opening for a huge international band that’s providing seven to whatever thousand people in front of you.
Esty: Yeah, I mean, you just do what you do.
Corey: You don’t complain.
Corey: You’re grateful.
Corey: But it’s standard.
Corey: You don’t get the full reign of the fucking yeah, big bada boom.
Esty: Of course.
Esty: I always wonder with that.
Corey: It’s actually true, but it is true.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: You go.
Esty: There you go.
Corey: We opened it wide open.
Corey: We revealed the truth.
Esty: We all about the truth.
Corey: So there you go.
Corey: There’s a bit of that shit.
Corey: And it’s standard.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Let me ask you about you wearing a hat, Beatspun.
Corey: Yes.
Corey: So this is a company that I am the co-director, co-owner of that I created a year and a half ago.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: When I toured my practice room, which all my bands wrote all their albums in.
Esty: Right.
Corey: We’ve had other bands in there from Set On In to New Way Home.
Corey: They just did some recording last week.
Corey: In the Beatspun Studio.
Corey: Back then, it was just mattresses.
Corey: It was a big stinky room with the shittiest carpet.
Corey: Thirteen years later, I decided I’m going to turn into a music studio and be a music producer with my school friend Elton Neuer Scissorhands.
Corey: Now it’s been a year and a half.
Esty: Wow.
Corey: We’re dropping all sorts of different songs from metal bands to rappers to our own remixes.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: You’ve got your own music sessions going on in there as well.
Esty: So you dropped a video yesterday or something.
Corey: Beatspun Unplugged.
Esty: That was good, man.
Esty: That dude is really talented.
Corey: He’s amazing.
Corey: Nathan Grey.
Esty: Nathan Grey.
Corey: So his EP is coming out next week, I believe.
Esty: That dude is really talented.
Esty: That unplugged was really cool.
Corey: We were lucky to have him in and he’s someone to keep an eye on.
Corey: We’re supporting him with his journey and we hope we can help him get the right connections to really break out.
Corey: And like I said before, it’s all about good management.
Esty: Yes.
Corey: So if you’re a manager watching this and you like Nathan Grey, please DM me.
Esty: Yes.
Corey: And let’s make some shit happen.
Corey: But this guy is incredible.
Esty: So this guy is really talented.
Corey: You like his voice?
Esty: I do like his voice.
Esty: I mean, I mean, when you when you see that unplugged, one of the things about unplugged is that you can really appreciate it’s all live the talent because it’s just him and a guitar.
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: And the rawness of the songs, like the lack of, you know, production, the production in there.
Esty: It’s raw sounding that good.
Corey: But that’s why we called it unplugged.
Esty: It’s so good, dude.
Esty: I’ve never heard of him before, but I saw the video and I was like, this dude is really talented.
Corey: We’ll keep an eye on him.
Corey: He’s got more stuff coming out.
Corey: And Elton and I are both doing remixes.
Esty: Nice.
Corey: In like different styles.
Corey: And it’s very drum and bass sounding.
Esty: Nice.
Esty: Nice.
Esty: Dude, but let’s go back quickly about Beatspun because you mentioned that you decided to do this thing.
Esty: But what exactly triggered that?
Esty: Like walk me through your head.
Corey: Well, you know, it’s funny.
Corey: It’s when I wrote the song Letting Go.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: Which I released last month.
Corey: And it was a real bad time in my life, actually.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: I had just gone through a breakup.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: After a seven year relationship.
Esty: I see.
Corey: That unfortunately got quite toxic.
Corey: So it was for the best.
Corey: We went our own ways.
Corey: And unfortunately, we had a dog together.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: So complicated at all.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: I was still in love with her.
Corey: And I was heartbroken and just in a bad place.
Corey: So what do you do when you’re down?
Corey: You get drunk and you get fucked up and you do dumb shit online.
Corey: And Elton was seeing all this shit.
Corey: And he was worried about me.
Corey: And one day he came over to check on me.
Corey: And some shit went down.
Corey: And cops turned up.
Corey: Front door.
Corey: And it was like the universe was trying to tell me something.
Esty: Oh no.
Corey: And he saw me at my worst.
Esty: Okay, I see.
Corey: But the funny thing is he saw me posting, I’m doing good.
Corey: Life is great.
Corey: But he knew it wasn’t authentic.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: And he reached out.
Corey: We were working out together.
Corey: He’s like, you need to do some working out.
Corey: Let’s get going.
Corey: That’s caring.
Esty: That’s a good friend right there.
Corey: Right.
Esty: That’s a good friend right there.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: So he was checking in on me.
Corey: All the shit went down and I was like, what the fuck?
Corey: The cops are here checking on me because I had a mental breakdown the night before.
Corey: I went nuts and I lost the plot.
Corey: So I was at my lowest moment.
Esty: You know, and this is all due to this breakup.
Corey: A lot of it was.
Corey: Yeah, yeah.
Corey: A lot of it was City of Souls broke up too.
Esty: I see.
Corey: So I’m double breakup.
Corey: Right.
Esty: People don’t realize how hard that is, isn’t it?
Esty: I remember when I broke up with the band, it was like, it’s just this hollow thing.
Esty: Like you used to do this all the time.
Corey: The similarity between a relationship with a person and a band member is like the same shit.
Corey: But times however many band members are in your band.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: So that was tough.
Corey: And it was right after we won the 2E Award.
Corey: And I went from the high to the low.
Corey: And unfortunately, I was in this big ass flat, no flatmates, all alone, trying to pay this rent, stressed out, alone.
Corey: Just resorting to social media during a fucking lockdown.
Corey: And then right after the lockdown, we could finally see people.
Corey: Elton comes over.
Corey: And after that, Maine shut down.
Corey: And he was working at Maine’s, which is the music school, just like SAE.
Corey: So he’s now become redundant.
Corey: I’m going through this fucking crazy shit.
Corey: And he knows we both are talented, and we want this fucking music shit to work.
Corey: So we’re like, let’s team up, trying to turn this shit into something, because it’s just me in this practice room now, no bands.
Corey: And we said, let’s fucking do this shit.
Corey: Well, we make our own studio, and we team up as producers, and we become a dynamic duo, and we start building this community that is Beatspun.
Esty: I see.
Corey: And it’s been a lot of work.
Corey: But now it’s like just taking off.
Esty: Nice.
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: Nice.
Esty: That’s awesome.
Esty: That’s awesome to hear.
Esty: And what is, what is the, because I don’t know DJ Scissorhands.
Esty: I’ve never heard of him before.
Esty: What is his sort of background?
Esty: Like what does he bring to Beatspun?
Corey: So he, funny enough, Slipknot played here one year, and Sid, the DJ, reached out to him, saying, I’ve seen you with your videos and your cutting and turntablism.
Corey: You’re a badass motherfucker.
Corey: I’ve seen who you fuck with.
Corey: You’re a legend.
Corey: Can we have a jam?
Esty: Really?
Corey: Yep.
Esty: Wow.
Corey: And here’s where it gets better.
Corey: They had a jam, and Elton, this is like six years ago, says, I got a mate who’s a huge fan.
Corey: Can he come to the gig?
Corey: So next thing you know, we’re backstage at Slipknot.
Esty: No way.
Corey: Hanging with Sid.
Corey: And my mate from Fornix Chemica, his side job is driving for these gigs.
Corey: He’s driving Slipknot.
Corey: He’s in the van going, is that Corey?
Corey: Hanging with Sid?
Corey: What the fuck is this?
Corey: Which funny enough is a side job that I now do.
Corey: And I’ve driven all these celebrities and shit.
Corey: No way.
Corey: It’s been fucked up, but we’ll talk about that later.
Corey: You know, one of the Destiny’s Child, you name it, man.
Corey: The Killers.
Corey: No way.
Corey: Jason Derulo’s.
Corey: That’s enough for now.
Corey: Anyway, it’s some rap shit as well, which you’ll appreciate.
Corey: But for me, being backstage at Slipknot, because my school friend thought of me, was pretty cool.
Corey: So we’ve always done shit together.
Corey: And at one point, he hired me to drum on a Burger Fuel ad and co-produce it with our friend.
Corey: And this thing went really good.
Corey: And it got on the ads and all this shit, because he’s always been involved with Burger Fuel.
Corey: Nice.
Corey: And I’ve always loved Burger Fuel, because I always had the vegan options.
Esty: Are you vegan?
Corey: Yeah, full vegan.
Corey: That’s another story in its own, how I went vegan.
Esty: Let’s go back to that.
Esty: So you were struggling with this, your friend.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: So we had done shit together.
Esty: I see.
Corey: He was worried about me.
Corey: He comes over, sees me at my lowest, knows I’m not really doing well, but trying to put on this facade, like I’m all good.
Corey: I’m doing fine, but I’m fucked.
Corey: And that was cool.
Corey: And since then, we kind of started hanging out and talked about fusing because Mains was no more.
Corey: He’s like, what the fuck do I do?
Corey: I want to do music.
Corey: And I’m like, fuck yeah, let’s turn this practice room into a functioning studio.
Corey: Let’s get people in, make a few songs for free, to just get shit out there and have people work with us.
Corey: Because no one knows what we’re capable of achieving.
Esty: But do you have any background producing or anything like that?
Esty: Because, I mean, you’ve obviously been in recording studios for a long time.
Corey: So I did release an album four years ago as Chores.
Corey: And I did an album release.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: And it was like Skrillex-y kind of shit.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: A bit of drum and bass and a bit of prodigy.
Corey: Because I grew up with all that shit as well.
Corey: I love all that heavier dance music.
Corey: Conquer Dawn, Black Sun Empire, all that stuff.
Corey: And the funny thing is they’re all metal heads too.
Corey: So there’s a very metal sound to my first album Chores.
Corey: And Elton had also released some Scissorhands stuff.
Corey: So we’re both independently producing, DJing.
Esty: I see.
Corey: On the side as well as teaching.
Esty: I see, I see.
Esty: You did have a sort of producer sort of background.
Corey: But no one had done anything with me and I was real shit.
Corey: But I’m trying to, in that time, I was trying to learn from really good producers.
Corey: So I had teamed up with these producers over the years, paying them to help me.
Corey: And as I did that, I learned a lot of shit.
Corey: And it was very beneficial.
Corey: So by the time we got to the point last year, we started the studio and we knew we both could produce, an engineer.
Corey: But we had limitations with the gear we had.
Corey: Fuck, it was hard, man.
Corey: It was a lot of hours.
Esty: I bet, I bet.
Esty: And how does that, so are you guys 50-50 partners on that?
Corey: Pretty much, yeah.
Esty: Right.
Esty: Dude, walk me through the thought process on that, the economic side of things, because in terms of the money that it generates, like how do you guys work that out?
Esty: All the time you’re gonna put in, it’s gonna pay off.
Corey: Well, that’s it.
Corey: I mean, for instance, we had a great opportunity to work with Burger Fuel because of Elton.
Esty: I see.
Corey: We had this huge campaign called Burgers and Beats, which we innovated the idea by pitching it to them with the Unplugged.
Corey: So the Beatspun Unplugged was a prototype that was not released to present to Burger Fuel to say, this is what we can do.
Corey: Let’s do it for you.
Esty: I see.
Corey: And then we actually were, for the first time ever, working with a corporate organization.
Corey: And when you’re working with a corporate organization, they have budgets, they have a bit more of an allocated financial push on that stuff compared to an independent artist.
Esty: Yeah, yeah.
Corey: So we ran it in a way where we thought, you know, we’ll treat this as a business.
Corey: The business will be the one, you know, presenting this.
Corey: We teamed up with the videographer, Dougie, from Damn Handsome.
Corey: And we were able to actually get a decent amount of work through them over a six-day period.
Esty: Nice.
Corey: And all the hours built up to an incredible amount where we felt like we actually were making some money off our skills.
Esty: Nice.
Corey: You know?
Corey: And for us, that was where it was at, is working with the corporates, because how many artists can afford two to three grand a song.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Corey: Right?
Corey: And that’s what it takes to make an incredible song sometimes, with the hours.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: It’s all dependable on the hours.
Corey: Because if you calculate how many hours you spent on a song, and then work it out how much you got paid, and then divide that by the hours, sometimes it’s like fucking ten bucks an hour.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: And you’re like, what the fuck happened?
Esty: Yeah, I know.
Esty: You know what I mean?
Esty: And people don’t realize the amount of work that it takes, man.
Corey: It’s so much work.
Esty: If you worked on a song, and then you sometimes you spend hours just fucking around this one little bit just to make it sound perfect.
Esty: It’s so much work.
Corey: The editing.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: And it’s all dependable on the artist.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: They’re fucking good.
Corey: You might not need to do much.
Esty: Right.
Corey: But if they haven’t had much experience, and they’re working with you as a new studio, they’re probably a new artist.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: It’s a lot more editing.
Corey: It’s a lot more takes, a lot more time.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: What has been the most challenging moment so far for Beatspun?
Esty: If you were to think about, because I mean, it’s an incredible story.
Esty: And I want to go back after this question to your resolve mentally and how that went.
Esty: But before we get to that, how have you guys managed the most challenging parts with Beatspun?
Esty: Because again, it’s a partnership.
Esty: And you guys are like a proper love relationship pretty much.
Corey: Like we said before, it’s like with a partner.
Esty: When you have a partner like that, you guys have to have a very solid relationship.
Esty: So what has been on the top of your head?
Esty: Something that’s been…
Corey: The most challenging thing is actually realizing, becoming a producer and now we’re becoming a record label.
Corey: This is our next thing we’re doing.
Corey: We’re scaling up.
Corey: There’s so much you don’t really know.
Esty: Yes.
Corey: That you didn’t realize you didn’t know.
Corey: You’re like, how hard can this fucking be?
Corey: Oh shit.
Corey: This is fucking confusing.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: I mean, just with music royalties.
Corey: How the fuck do you make a contract when you present to an artist where they read it and go, this looks sweet and they understand it and you feel like everything’s transparent and there’s like percentages of masters, songwriting.
Corey: We had no fucking idea how deep it went.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: Then you’ve got aggregators, distributors, which are the ones who put it up online and then they take a percentage, and then you register it with these companies and then that’s also a chunk and it’s like, damn, fuck, how hard is this shit to work out and then put it into a point system.
Esty: A point system.
Corey: It’s no longer a percentage, it becomes a point system and then it’s all these jargon, very complicated terms which you’re trying to understand and then have your artists that you present the contracts to understand.
Corey: So you go from being a passionate musician to having to learn the whole industry as a businessman.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: That was the most difficult thing.
Esty: Right.
Corey: But it was the most beneficial thing.
Esty: Yes.
Corey: Usually, what’s in the way is the way.
Corey: And for us, it was all the confusing shit of how the business end worked.
Corey: And that was fucking hard.
Esty: Right.
Esty: I just saw you guys both producing always.
Esty: How does that work?
Corey: Always.
Esty: Always.
Corey: Yep.
Esty: Oh, I see.
Corey: We’re both engineering.
Corey: But we have our specialties.
Esty: I see.
Corey: But we both have our skills.
Esty: This guy DJ Scissorhands might be the guy we were always wanting on our band.
Esty: Because you know, when we were…
Corey: With the new metal?
Corey: Yes, exactly.
Esty: Whenever we played…
Corey: Well, I had him actually feature on my bands.
Esty: Oh, did you?
Esty: So it’s so hard because like we wanted to have a DJ.
Corey: By the way, when every new metal, every new metal band wants a fucking DJ, right?
Esty: Dude, whenever we played, whenever we played, I wanted to DJ so bad that I was a bass player, the lead singer.
Esty: But I was also the guy with an iPad in front of the mic, and I would be triggering sounds on the soundboard so that he’s felt like a DJ because, bro…
Corey: Using an iPad live.
Corey: I love that.
Corey: That was actually pretty cool.
Esty: It was pretty cool.
Esty: I remember when I walked in with it, I told the sound guy, like, can I have a 3.5 input for this?
Esty: And he’s like, what is that?
Esty: And I was like, I’m just going to trigger sounds from here.
Esty: He’s like, oh, so I will walk in, press one button, I have this whole intro build up.
Esty: And then whenever he was like, if you hear our songs, you’ll see bits coming in and out, like sound bits of…
Corey: I love that shit.
Esty: I would trigger them and have this piano come in or whatever.
Esty: And I would write that down and put it on.
Esty: Anyway, but the dream was always to have a DJ properly doing it, like Liam Biscuit.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: DJ Lethal.
Esty: Dude, try to put an ad out there to say, recruiting a DJ for a metal band.
Corey: We did, but this is not a single person.
Esty: There’s not a single DJ that knows new metal and want to be in a band.
Esty: It’s just impossible in New Zealand.
Esty: But anyway, I got to meet this guy because he’s like a really fine dude.
Corey: Come into the studio sometime.
Esty: Yeah, we’ll come into the studio.
Corey: Have a jam.
Esty: Have a jam.
Esty: Yeah, let’s do it.
Esty: Bro, walk me through these mental breakdown.
Esty: Because I think it’s important to talk about things that you probably learned through…
Corey: Absolutely.
Corey: And I feel it’s…
Corey: Being in the music industry, being a creative, you do put yourself out there with more vulnerability than most.
Corey: Yes.
Corey: You are more sensitive.
Corey: The creative types are usually that way inclined.
Corey: And for me, it was the feeling of being alone that got me.
Okay.
Corey: Because I felt it was so hard being understood.
Corey: Like, no one understands why do you keep doing this music.
Corey: But seeing you struggle, usually if you struggle with something, that’s a sign right there to do something else, right?
Yeah.
Corey: But here I am, trying to build this career in music, going through all these different journeys.
Corey: And I realized being a musician in itself is not easy.
Corey: Let alone being a human, you know?
Corey: And there’s not enough support in the music industry.
Corey: So for me, I think learning from my own breakdowns, I’ve gained a lot of knowledge with ways to improve on how to handle being, you know, a sensitive musician.
Corey: And for me, I’d like to give back to the community and run these workshops.
Corey: And I’ve done a few speeches on mental health.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: And it was good.
Corey: Apparently people thought I said some really helpful things.
Corey: And I think now more than ever, there’s so many increased suicides and it’s just, it’s really bad, isn’t it?
Corey: You know, especially with the music industry.
Corey: But at the same time, I felt like music was the thing that healed me.
Corey: You know, there’s nothing more powerful than music.
Corey: And having a song that relates to you and feeling that amazing, you know, lifting up, that music, just putting on a song can do that, you know?
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: And yeah, I think that’s what got me through.
Corey: And I think that’s allowed me to understand that there’s a lot of issues with a lot of musicians.
Corey: So I would like to, in time, kind of work through my own journey with sound healing and actually learn how to do sound therapy.
Corey: Because there’s something there, man.
Corey: Have you heard of Cymatics?
Corey: On YouTube, you can look at these experiments.
Corey: They have like a metal, just a piece of metal, quite thin, like a sheet of it, and they put sand on it.
Corey: And they’ll play a frequency or whatever that’s got the fundamental and that exact frequency.
Esty: And you’ll create like these shapes.
Corey: Yes.
Esty: Yeah, I’ve seen that.
Corey: And it’s insane.
Esty: It’s pretty cool.
Corey: There’s something to it.
Corey: And there’s this whole like thing with the fact that everything is a frequency.
Corey: Everything is a vibration.
Corey: Once you get into quantum physics and quantum mechanics, you realize that.
Corey: And I believe every thought has energy.
Esty: Energy, yeah.
Esty: 100%.
Esty: Well, 100% agree on that.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: Not everyone knows to the stuff.
Corey: And I believe that’s because it’s still not fully understood.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: There’s that whole pseudoscience term, you know?
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: And unless we have full, I guess, irrefutable proof, we won’t really know the capabilities of it.
Corey: And at the start of the year, I did a breath workshop, which changed my life.
Esty: Okay.
Esty: How so?
Corey: It was a full outer body experience.
Corey: I connected with my inner child.
Esty: Through breathing.
Corey: Through breathing, it was like elevating me.
Corey: It was getting really full on.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: People don’t understand that they could have proper psychedelic experiences through breathing.
Corey: I had that.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Because a lot of people, like, let me give you an example.
Esty: So I do have, part of my family have a lot of connection with ancestral medicine, which means, you know, ayahuasca, because that comes from Colombia.
SPEAKER_3: Yes.
Esty: My dad, on the other hand, he’s like a Chinese master in healing and medicine.
Corey: Tai Chi.
Esty: He does Tai Chi, he does Chi Kung, he does Ray Chi.
Corey: Which Chi is energy.
Corey: And they have the Meridians, don’t they?
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: You know about the Meridians?
Esty: I’ve heard from him.
Corey: So here’s something for you.
Corey: Ready?
Corey: I mean, I’m not very clued up on this shit, but I dabble.
Corey: So they never could prove these things are real, right?
Corey: Like how the fuck do you prove energy and Tai Chi is real?
Corey: And someone said it is fucking real.
Corey: We have these veins that aren’t veins called Meridians.
Corey: So they put this dye through, I guess, experimental patient.
Esty: That’s how they can see it, right?
Corey: And it was scientifically proven that it is a thing.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: By any way, my point was that him, for example, he does a lot of meditation.
Esty: And he did told me that a while ago about the power of breathing.
Esty: He said, and I started implementing that because again, breathing is one of those things that are fundamental to a lot of basic human emotions and behavior.
Esty: Sometimes you take that extra breath and it changes everything, right?
Esty: Yes.
Esty: And he used to tell me all these crazy stories because he used to…
Esty: So quick short story.
Esty: My dad went to China.
Esty: He won a scholarship from Colombia to study in China.
Corey: Wow.
Corey: He’s a smart guy, obviously.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: So he went and studied Chinese.
Esty: He speaks fluent Mandarin.
Corey: Mandarin.
Corey: Yeah, I know a little bit of Mandarin.
Esty: And he used to tell me these crazy stories of people as students going into these deep meditations for days and having psychedelic-like experiences.
Esty: And he used to tell me that you didn’t need to, you know, ingest DMT or ayahuasca or anything like this.
Corey: It’s all natural.
Esty: To get to that stage.
Corey: But that’s the easy way to get there.
Esty: Right.
Esty: Exactly.
Esty: So he used to say that you could get there.
Esty: And he met people that got there through astral reading techniques and stuff.
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: And I was like, wow, that’s incredible.
Corey: Did he do astral projection?
Esty: No idea.
Esty: No, I’m not sure.
Esty: I’ll ask him.
Corey: Yeah, you should ask him.
Esty: But, dude, you know what?
Esty: One day, have you done a sensory deprivation tank?
Esty: Oh, you never done a sensory deprivation tank?
Corey: No, I’d love to try it.
Esty: You should try that out.
Corey: Salt water, the way.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: So you float from that.
Esty: You float.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: You do that.
Esty: Yeah, I’ve done it.
Esty: Yeah, yeah.
Esty: There’s a place here called Float Culture, which you can try it out.
Corey: Did you freak out the first time?
Esty: Or was it good?
Esty: I didn’t, to be honest.
Esty: A lot of people do freak out.
Corey: I heard that.
Esty: Yeah, but I didn’t.
Esty: It was an incredible experience.
Esty: And it was a psychedelic-like experience.
Esty: Like, once you get into your breathing and you get into the state of meditation, it becomes, because your senses are so…
Corey: Heightened.
Esty: Deprived.
Corey: Deprived, yes.
Esty: So they deprive.
Corey: So another sense enhances.
Corey: Exactly.
Esty: Yes.
Esty: Exactly.
Esty: So, for example, the complete darkness was the one that did it for me.
Esty: That absolute darkness and floating.
Esty: And at some point, I literally was dreaming that I was in the middle of the ocean and I could see stars.
Esty: And it’s an incredible experience.
Esty: But anyway, another topic for another time.
Corey: I’d love to try it.
Esty: Definitely try it.
Esty: But that’s awesome.
Esty: So what was one of those things that you wish you knew at that point in time?
Esty: That you wish somebody told you or you wish somebody approached you?
Esty: What was the one thing that perhaps somebody listening to this right now feeling down or feeling like, you know, we talked about creatives and how lonely sometimes that could feel when you spend so much hours of your day, you know, doing this kind of stuff and putting your heart out there, putting so much hours of work and then nobody reacts to it or they might feel like, you know, they throwing stuff into the ether.
Esty: What is one thing that we could communicate to these people about making that a worthily experience and communicating that you are doing what you love and your worth of being here, of living this experience, and that whatever pain you’re feeling right now is temporary and is going to go past.
Corey: Well, for me, it was the finding the music to channel all these emotions.
Esty: Channeling.
Corey: Creating a song and getting it out.
Esty: Right.
Corey: But I also felt, not just the music, but I started getting therapy.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: Best thing ever.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: And if you can get therapy and you can get funding to get therapy, there should be no reason why you’re not doing that.
Esty: Interesting.
Corey: Yeah, because you can talk about the things that you’ve wanted to talk about, and just talking about it and getting it out there, you almost realize on your own these things, but having someone else create a safe environment, support you on that, and tell you like, you’re doing all right, you’re actually doing okay, was really good.
Corey: And I learned so much through that, which brings us back to the song Letting Go.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: The lyrics in that song, the main ones, not the verse, but the chorus, was all from my therapy sessions.
Esty: Really?
Corey: Yes.
Esty: Wow.
Corey: And it was very spiritual, because for me, I was obsessing on this breakup.
Corey: So I had to cut the energy and just let go.
Corey: So Letting Go is all about stop being so anxious and just give in.
Corey: So cut the energy, trust in the universe.
Corey: So I had to trust things would get better.
Corey: This is happening for a reason, for a good reason.
Corey: So maybe there’s some blessing in here.
Corey: Maybe there’s some change and shit.
Corey: And then it was, feel this moment.
Corey: So stop worrying about the future or the past.
Corey: Just be in this fucking moment.
Esty: In the present.
Corey: Yeah, exactly.
Corey: It’s time to let it go.
Corey: And then that, for me, making that music and actually getting to become not just a drummer but now a producer singing and writing all my own lyrics and being able to put all these feelings into a track was probably the biggest thing for me.
Corey: Wow.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: But my journey as well of healing and growing and accepting and…
Corey: So that song to me is almost like a pivotal point in my music career because I developed all these production skills after four years.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: But also my spiritual journey.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: Dude, that was…
Esty: Yeah, that’s awesome.
Esty: That song is such a great song.
Corey: I had a lot of help with that song.
Esty: Who did the vocals for that?
Corey: That’s all me.
Corey: That’s all me.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: And funny enough, the rapping…
Corey: What?
Corey: It’s like Prodigy.
Corey: I recorded it on my couch lying down with my laptop microphone.
Corey: So it’s the shittiest you can think, but there was some vibe in there.
Corey: And I re-recorded that verse so many times and I lost the energy and the vibe.
Corey: So I ran with my shitty, lying on the fucking couch, saying it into a fucking laptop mic.
Corey: And that was the take.
Esty: No way.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: Oh, I can hear it in the headphones.
Esty: Yeah, hell yeah.
Esty: I want to bring in the vocals though.
Corey: That was on the couch, that bit, yeah.
Corey: This I re-did.
Esty: Oh, the chorus is pretty badass.
Corey: Thanks.
Corey: Auto-tune.
Corey: And then I got some metal screens in there.
Corey: Gotta make it metal, you know?
Corey: It’s a shame I have no guitars in this song, but I figured out how to play the lead.
Esty: I didn’t know that was you on the vocals.
Corey: Yeah, yeah, everything’s me.
Esty: Oh, wow, that’s cool.
Corey: And I have a lot more like that coming out, so I have about seven songs and they’re even heavier.
Esty: Walk me through your creative process because we didn’t talk about that.
Corey: Yes, it’s very different when I produce my own stuff to when I’m in the Beatspun studio, working with Elton and others, especially when we’re ghost writing or producing other artists.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: When I’m doing my own stuff, it’s very late at night by myself and I channel the best I can and emotive feeling.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: It’s usually some kind of pain or suffering with the underlying message.
Corey: Once I make the music and it will be really rough, I won’t worry too much about the mixing, but I’ll mix as I go.
Corey: I’ll use serum, I’ll use drum samples and create all my beats and the bass and all the leads.
Corey: But then I’ll finally go, what do I feel?
Corey: And I’ll literally press record and just scream and sing, having no idea what’s going to happen.
Esty: I see.
Corey: But usually what I say and doing that first take, somehow becomes the song.
Corey: And the song almost writes itself.
Corey: Right.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: And I’m channeling.
Esty: So it’s like, yeah, you’re basically channeling through from the very beginning.
Esty: As you put the first drum track down, you already have a mood in mind.
Esty: You already have something that you’re channeling through that beat.
Corey: And I’ll just fucking hit record all by myself.
Corey: And I’ll be as vulnerable as I can.
Corey: And I’ll just go without thinking and whatever.
Corey: But I don’t overthink it.
Corey: I just fucking go and that’s usually my process.
Corey: And then I’ll start mixing, start like tweaking it, get some feedback from other people and just go nuts on it and spend like 200 hours changing this thing completely different from the first version.
Corey: But you see those vocals stay, which is weird.
Esty: That’s cool man.
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: It’s awesome that you get that rawness in there.
Corey: And I cater it to the theme of the vocals.
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: Nice.
Esty: Let me talk to you.
Esty: Let’s wrap with this and I will do this little thing.
Esty: But why do you thoughts on this new wave of AI in the music industry?
Esty: Like what are your thoughts on how that thing is going to change?
Corey: I’ve thought about this a lot.
Corey: Alright.
Corey: For anyone who’s watching this and they don’t know what you can achieve now, you can literally put in a prompt saying, make a song in this style, like this person, or reference whoever the fuck you want, write it about this, and it will generate a full fucking song.
Corey: And it sounds too fucking good.
Corey: It is incredible.
Corey: Who’s to stop people from uploading that AI made song, saying it’s their song, and people are like, whoa, this producer came out of nowhere.
Corey: Holy shit, they’re good.
Corey: And they just keep doing that and they make hundreds of songs, upload it to Spotify, and next thing you know, all this music, is it authentic?
Corey: Is it real?
Esty: Think about it, this thing has been here for not that long.
Corey: Every industry will have its worries, not just the music industry, but hopefully it can free up the unnecessary jobs that we shouldn’t be doing, which is not ideal with ethics.
Esty: With music is very interesting.
Esty: There is this guy who, there is this, somebody did exactly what you said, and he said like, right, this is a guy who makes like rap music in Spanish, right?
Esty: And the guy basically put a prompt that said, you know, make a rap song in this guy’s style or whatever, put it out.
Esty: He became viral to the point where that guy needs to sing that song.
Corey: But no one knew it was AI?
Esty: No one knew it was AI.
Esty: And then he came out and said, actually, that’s not, that’s not me, that song’s not mine.
Esty: People were loving the song, to the point where he went like, you know what, fuck it, I’m just going to do the song.
Esty: Yeah, he just sings in life.
Corey: And he’s all right.
Esty: And he loves it.
Esty: He’s like, fuck it, people love it.
Esty: They don’t do it.
Corey: We know it’s funny because I know some places in maybe the East, like Korea and China, they have an AI band.
Corey: Yeah, there’s no real people in that.
Corey: I don’t know if it’s AI music, but the images of the people that sing are AI.
Corey: So that’s already become a normalized thing.
Esty: And I mean producing as well.
Esty: I remember back in the day, if you wanted to do drumming with samples, you could tell right away that there were samples.
Esty: Now there are some that are so good, that is so hard to tell whether they’re real drums or not.
Esty: You know what I mean?
Esty: So I think it’s going to get to a very interesting spot.
Corey: It will.
Esty: It will get to a very interesting…
Corey: How many people will fake it?
Esty: Oh, 100%.
Corey: You know what I mean?
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: And I mean a lot of people do argue that, right?
Esty: Like you talked about auto-tune, right?
Esty: That was a big thing when it came out, right?
Esty: It’s like, oh, you’re not a real singer because you’re using this technology to enhance your voice.
Corey: But it’s actually standard.
Esty: Yeah, so nowadays…
Corey: And now it’s Melodyne.
Esty: Exactly.
Esty: So nowadays, everybody’s using it, right?
Esty: Everybody’s…
Corey: To the point where, you know what’s crazy about that?
Corey: And it’s the same with quantizing.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: If you actually listen to some new singers, their voice sounds like autotune is on.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: Even it’s raw.
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: And you’re like, what the fuck?
Corey: And it’s because everything they’ve heard is autotune, so they’ve taught themselves how to sound like that, to emulate it.
Corey: And same with drumming.
Corey: If you produce a song and you haven’t edited the drums, it actually sounds shit because we’re so adjusted to hearing everything perfect.
Esty: Right.
Corey: And it’s crazy, you know?
Corey: And that’s what’s happened.
Corey: We’re adjusted to this stuff.
Esty: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Esty: Dude, I’m starting to do this segment in the podcast, which is called The Soundboard, and I did it on the last episode.
Esty: This is the second time we’re doing it.
Esty: And essentially what you got here in front of you is a soundboard.
Esty: And what this is, is essentially I asked, I went to AI to ChatGPT, and I said that I was interviewing you for this podcast.
Esty: And I said, if you were to ask, if you were sitting in this very room with us, what would you ask Corey?
Esty: And so he wrote a bunch of questions.
Corey: So what prompts did you give it about me?
Corey: He’s a musician or anything like that?
Esty: I gave her context, and I also asked to query what you background was, which was pretty accurately.
Esty: I gave you all the bands and all that.
Corey: Wow.
Corey: I searched the web for it.
Esty: Yes.
Corey: Oh, wow.
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: It made some stuff up, which I told him it was not true.
Corey: Really?
SPEAKER_4: It does have a listening, you know?
Corey: What was it saying?
Corey: Anything good?
Esty: No, it was basically, yeah, it was good, but it was a couple of things.
Corey: I’m not sure this is partially correct.
Esty: Like I drive a Lamborghini?
Esty: No, no, no.
Esty: It’s something about…
Corey: Anyway.
Corey: Not yet.
Esty: So I turned these questions into audio using AI.
Corey: And now it’s a random thing?
Esty: So using AI, I turned that into a voice.
Corey: Good.
Esty: And now what you have in front of you is a bunch of random questions from AI.
Corey: I love this.
Esty: So try it.
Corey: Dude, you’re fucking pretty high tech, hey?
Esty: Yeah.
Corey: I’m working the tech industry.
Corey: I love this shit.
Esty: So tap any button and then we’ll see what happens.
Corey: All right.
Corey: I’m going to go for the blue one.
Esty: Okay, go blue.
SPEAKER_4: What’s an artist or band that greatly impacted your life?
Corey: Well, Metallica was the first.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: But Tool was another one.
Corey: But man, I don’t know.
Esty: Metallica is probably the one.
Corey: Metallica is the one that changed it all, bro.
Esty: Tap another one.
SPEAKER_4: What has been the most unexpected collaboration or partnership you formed and what made it special?
Corey: Oh, that’s a good question.
Corey: I guess that Sylvia Massey thing.
Corey: I never fucking thought I produced.
Corey: Sorry, do an album with the producer of Tool.
Corey: We became great friends and when she did a producer’s workshop here, we caught up and it was a really cool moment.
Corey: She remembered me and she ended up talking about Fornex and the thing.
Corey: Bro, that’s the biggest thing for me.
Corey: But also because of that, we opened for Meshuggah.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: So getting to tour with Meshuggah was insane.
Esty: Wow.
Corey: Yeah, just all the bands I’ve toured with, man, they’re all equally buzzy.
Corey: The fact that I love these bands and got to hang out with these people and share the stage, it’s so weird.
Esty: Let’s try another two.
SPEAKER_4: What’s one thing that keeps you motivated every day?
Corey: I guess the fact that we got to build an empire because it ain’t building itself.
Corey: We got to put in that work, man.
Corey: And also watching heaps of shit online about like, fucking let’s go and entrepreneurial shit and power of the mind, all that shit.
Corey: You got to fucking do it.
Corey: Otherwise, it’s tough.
SPEAKER_4: What’s one ritual you have before going on stage?
Corey: Oh, I always try and warm up with my rudiments and shit, but I always do pushups.
Corey: And I always have this moment where I get a little bit primitive and start like doing these weird growls and shit.
Corey: From like, yeah, fuck yeah.
Corey: And I just get, I have to, I am myself up and I’m like, I’m a fucking monster.
Corey: You know, I turn into this fucking beast and I fucking go out there and I just.
Corey: Nice.
Corey: You know, that’s, that’s my fucking rituals.
Corey: Summoning the beast.
Corey: Nice, nice, nice.
Corey: Also getting warmed up physically as well, you know, and mentally.
Corey: All right, we’ll do another one.
Esty: Yeah, let’s try another one.
SPEAKER_4: If you could only wear one outfit for the rest of your life, what would it be?
Esty: That’s a funny question.
Corey: These ripped jeans, probably some Adidas, Minas, like fucking, I don’t know, maybe some Yeezys.
Corey: And then the, probably Master Puppets or Ride The Lightning.
Esty: Okay.
Corey: Shirt.
Corey: And that’s it.
Esty: That’s it.
Esty: Nice.
Esty: And let’s do one.
Esty: Let’s try something.
Esty: Let’s do, let’s try something crazy actually.
Corey: Yeah, let’s do the crazy shit.
Esty: Let’s try this.
Esty: Let’s actually invoke the AI live here.
Esty: Hi, Chagipiti.
Esty: I’m here with Corey Freelander.
Esty: He’s a drummer from an incredible band in New Zealand.
Esty: He’s a musician, producer.
Esty: And he’s right here with me in the podcast.
Esty: We’re talking about a bunch of different stuff.
Esty: And I just thought I’ll call you in to ask him a question if you feel like it.
Esty: So here he is.
Esty: You can talk to him.
CHATGPT: Hey, Corey.
CHATGPT: Welcome to the show.
CHATGPT: It’s awesome to have you here.
CHATGPT: I’ve heard some great things about your work.
CHATGPT: I’m really curious, as a drummer and producer, how do you balance the technical side of music production with the raw emotional side of drumming?
CHATGPT: Any stories or moments where these two worlds collided for you?
Corey: Well, that is a great question.
Corey: And because of that, being a drummer and a producer, the best part is when I get to drum on my own productions.
Corey: And we do that as much as we fucking can.
Corey: And I’m like, we got the right drummer for the job, man.
Corey: Let’s go.
Corey: And sometimes it’s a one take, no editing, and it’s flawless.
Corey: And you’re like, yep, that’s right.
Corey: And I’m like, we good, we good.
Corey: So I guess, yeah, that’s kind of where it collides in this new song with Swizl called Rule of Threes, produced by Scissorhands and myself, Chores.
Corey: It’s got that.
Corey: It’s got a drum solo.
Esty: Nice.
Corey: And it’s got me drumming in sections, as well as our kind of drum machine beats and shit.
Corey: And we fucking love to do that.
Corey: That’s the benefit.
Corey: So we take the most of that advantage and go for it, you know?
Esty: Nice.
Esty: There you go.
Corey: There you go.
Esty: There you go.
Esty: That’s a question.
Corey: That was a fucking question, right?
Corey: And she sounded hot.
Esty: Yeah.
Esty: I do this one thing before we finish.
Esty: Leave us with one book, one album, one podcast or YouTube channel, something you listen to, one movie or TV show.
Esty: And this is the most important one.
Esty: If somebody was going to make a movie about you, what is the soundtrack of that movie?
Corey: Oh shit.
Corey: Well, I’d have to make the soundtrack.
Corey: I’d have to make it for that movie.
Corey: It couldn’t be pre-existing songs.
Corey: I would want full rain on that.
Esty: Okay, so let’s start with the book.
Corey: The book, funny enough, one book that I loved, which was from my drum teacher, was called The God Delusion.
Esty: Oh yes.
Corey: Richard Dawkins.
Esty: Yeah, Richard Dawkins.
Corey: You like it?
Esty: It’s a great book.
Corey: It’s good, isn’t it?
Corey: So that was cool.
Corey: One album.
Corey: One album.
Corey: I don’t know, I’m just going to say Meteora.
Corey: Okay.
Corey: The new metal thing.
Corey: That’s my favorite album by them.
Esty: I agree.
Esty: A podcast or a YouTube channel, something that you watched.
Corey: It’s Diary of a CEO.
Esty: Oh, Diary of a CEO.
Corey: I love that guy.
Corey: He has the best people on.
Esty: Awesome.
Esty: Movie or TV show, you want to recommend?
Corey: I do love This Is The End, because it’s good to have a laugh, right?
Corey: Yes.
Corey: I always fucking laugh so much of that.
Esty: All right.
Esty: The soundtrack, you’re going to write it yourself.
Corey: I’m going to write it myself.
Corey: Just like Trent Reznor did for the social network.
SPEAKER_3: Yes.
Corey: Apparently, Trent Reznor did that one.
Esty: Oh, did he?
Corey: Yeah.
Esty: Oh, okay.
Esty: That’s cool.
Esty: Awesome, man.
Esty: Hey, thank you for coming through.
Esty: We had a blast.
Esty: We did it almost two hours.
Corey: Cheers, bro.
Esty: With your projects, all the best with Beatspun.
Corey: Hopefully, we do some music at some point.
Esty: Yeah, hell yeah.
Esty: If you need some raps in any language.
Corey: We should do it.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: You don’t mender in like your dad?
Esty: No, I don’t.
Corey: I’ll teach you a little bit.
Esty: So anyway, thank you very much for coming through, man.
Esty: All the best.
Corey: Thanks for having me.
Esty: Thank you for everybody who listened to this.
Esty: And of course, remember to drink water and exercise and peace.
Corey: And dream big and don’t give up.
Corey: Thank you, brother.
Esty: Thank you for watching this episode of the podcast.
Esty: If you enjoyed the show, I’ll leave you another episode here.
Esty: And if you like to support us, visit themeldingmuse.com.
Esty: Thank you very much.
Esty: And I’ll see you on the next one.
